(Before you read this, please note, I'm not trying to start a fight with anyone. This is a topic to be discussed between Christian brothers and sisters who recognize that we are trying to describe an ineffable God, who is beyond our understanding, and who eludes our grasp. We all see through a glass darkly, therefore imperfectly this side of heaven. Nonetheless, I feel talking about theological differences helps us clarify what we believe, while recognizing that these differences do not need to separate or divide us. With all this in mind, feel free to journey with me.)
One of the more interesting comments he makes is that the heart of Arminian theology is not free will. Quite honestly this statement was news to me. I had assumed, along with most everyone else, that free will is the dividing line, the central issue that separates the Calvinists from the Wesleyans. However, the issue is much deeper than to believe or not to believe in free will.
Olson writes: "Arminianism begins with God's goodness and ends by affirming free will. The latter follows from the former, and the former is based on divine revelation; God reveals himself as unconditionally and unequivocally good, which does not exclude justice and wrathful retribution. It only excludes the possibility of God sinning, willing others to sin or causing sin" (99).
In other words, Arminius was somewhat troubled by certain schemes that suggest sin was willed or caused by God. According to some, since God controls absolutely everything, including human choice, God also caused or willed the first human couple to sin. Furthermore, many work from the assumption that God has already foreordained some to be saved and others to be damned. According to Arminius views like this implicate God in the sin and evil of the world.
But if God is good and just, it would seem impossible for God to set up a universe where both sin and evil would be inevitable. This is where free will is affirmed. God created the world and humans with the ability to resist his love, otherwise a true relationship is not possible.
Now such an affirmation does not deny that God is not in control. Nor does it deny that God is capable of controlling the decisions of certain people for his good purposes. The bible affirms that God is in control and that he does control history through the actions of others. What Arminius denies is that God controls all human choices, especially the choice to rebel against God. For doesn't scripture teach that God desires the salvation of every human being? 1 Timothy 2:4 and 2 Peter 3:9 seem to suggest that it does.
Now the question remains, Does this mean humans actually choose God? The answer is no. We don't choose God. Rather, God calls and woos and directs and persuades. Arminius calls this work of God prior to our acceptance of his mercy as prevenient grace, the grace that goes before. You see, before saying yes to God's forgiving love, God was there guiding and directing. Therefore we can never take credit for our choice. It's all of God. The only real freedom we have is the freedom to resist. That's it.
In short, God is good, thoroughly good, he wills the harm and destruction of no one but works for the healing of all.
Peace.
15 comments:
Amen!
Brother David, you point out a school of thought, "But if God is good and just, it would seem impossible for God to set up a universe where both sin and evil would be inevitable.", as it relates to "the assumption that God has already foreordained some to be saved and others to be damned." Therefore "implicating God in the sin and evil of the world."
It is perplexing how God would even allow evil to exist in his creation. Unless God had a perfect antidote to overcome evil. A solution that can rescue to redeem those who are prisoners to evil. We learn, through God's Word that humanity is fallen. Therefore it is not without God's will, that we find all of humanity in this uncomfortable state of existence of sin and separation and death. We also learn that it is God's will that none should perish, and that he does not take delight in the destruction of fallen humanity because he loves his creation. So how can this be? We find God, it seems, on both sides of the equation of good and evil.
To be continued...
S.Davis
God Is. Therefore, from the beginning was the Godhead who is The Father, The Word (only begotton son), The Holy Spirit. Amen!
At some point in antiquity, God created The Angelic hosts. Lucifer being the head of that classification of beings, but who was subject to The Godhead who created him. (Remember, All things were made through him (Christ Jesus The Word of God) and without him was not anything made that was made. The Angels are not automatons, but have reason and purpose and individual will. We see a hint (more like proof) that there is "free will" nature among God's angelic beings. In fact the origin of separation, sin and evil is by and through Satan's willful disobedience to God's calling for his purpose in The Kingdom of God. Satan willfully abused and misapropriated his God given gift "free will". Satan glorified himself declairing that he is even higher than God his creator. A sinner from and userper from the beginning. Rev 12:3 Satan persuaded a number (1/3) of the angels to rebel with him. 2 Pe 2:4 and Jud 1:6 These angels who sinned, who are now chained in Hell committed to pits of nether gloom to be kept until the judgment.
We learn later that God would make man in his own image (having free will among other characteristics). Adam and Eve were beguiled, tempted, and overcome by Satan, who encouraged them, to exercise their willfulness. The result of their sin was spiritual death, which leads to physical death. From this point forward all mankind (whom God loves with an everlasting love) are, and have been, born spiritually dead for all generations.
1 Ho 3:8 "For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the Devil."
To be continued...
S.Davis
First Hint of His Promised Manifestation?
When Jacob gatherd his sons together Gen 49. He discloses the role of Judah among Israel in the end of days.
Gen 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah nor a lawgiver from between its feet until Shiloh come; and unto him [shall] the gathering of the people [be].
Gen 49:11 Binding his foal to the vine and his ass's colt to the choice vine, he washed his garments in wine and his vesture in the blood of grapes;
The Word of God, Jesus (The Vine), early on was presenting himself through his Law, the written word (The Foal) spoken to the people to uphold and instruct them in righteousness; The Law of Moses and The Prophets. At the right time, at the end of the age, Jesus (The Choice Vine) came in the flesh (His Asses Colt) to physically bear and even carry all our griefs, sorrows, burdens, sins, transgressions, and iniquity and take them far away, removing them from us, even burrying (Washing) them in the deepest sea of His Royal Redemptive Blood (wine and blood of grapes) These two manifestations (beasts of burden foal and asses colt) are the Way & Strength to Save. They are in fact God's Salvation Mighty To Save. For there is no other (Choice Vine / Name) given among men where a man might be saved. ALL these traits are the full revelation or manifestation of Christ Jesus.
Now we read in Matthew 21:1 And when they drew near to Jerusalem and came to Bethphage, to the Mount of Olives, then Jesus sent two disciples, 21:2 saying to them, "Go into the village opposite you, and immediately you will find an ass tied, and a colt with her; untie them and bring them to me. 21:3 If any one says anything to you, you shall say, "The Lord has need of them, and he will send them immediately." Mat 21:4 This took place to fulfil what was spoken by the prophet, saying, Mat 21:5 Tell the daughter of Zion, Behold, your king is coming to you, humble, and mounted on an ass, and on a colt, the foal of an ass. Mat 21:6 The disciples wnt and did as Jesus had directed them; Mat 21:7 they brought the ass and the colt, and put their garments on them, and he sat on theron.
In my next post I want to talk more about this. But the point, I wish to emphasize here is that THIS IS PROOF and A FOCAL POINT and THE APPOINTED TIME IN HISTORY of HIS VISITATION...Who among His Generation considerd that He was cut off out of the land of the living, Striken for the transgressions of My People?
As a child, I remember Palm Sunday and hearing about Jesus's "Triumphal Entry" not really knowing that the impact of His Real Time Entry Into The City of Jerusalem was appreciated by relatively few adults but somehow large numbers of children or youth were moved by the Holy Spirit for them to cry out and shout to sing "Hosanna to the Son of David! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! Hosanna in the highest! Most of the crowd spread their garments on the road, and others cut branches from the trees and spread them on the road. It was a joyous throng escorting whom they identified as "the prophet Jesus from Nazareth of Galilee"...Who, unbeknown to them, is the King of Glory in their midst, He who is Just and having Salvation!
Zec 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout aloud, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your king comes to you; triumphant and victorius is he, humble lowly riding upon an ass and upon a colt the foal of an ass...there had to have been those in that throng who knew this prophecy. I'm sure weeks later many more would recall this and ponder what they witnessed.
Here is more exciting expectation that many were anticipating in the population but not really understanding that their king would be a suffering servant, not a Warrior King.
Zec 2:10 Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion; for lo, I come and I will dwell in the midst of you, says the LORD... Wow, what a promise fulfilled!
Zep 3:14 Sing aloud, O daughter of Zion: shout, O Israel! Rejoice and exult with all your heart, O daughter of Jerusalem!
Psa 9:14 that I may recount all thy praises, that in the gates of the daughter of Zion I may rejoice in thy deliverance.
Mat 21:15 But when the chief priests and the scribes saw the wonerful things that he did, and the children crying out in the temple, "Hosanna to the Son of David!" they were indignant; Mat 21:16 and they said to him. "Do you hear what these are saying? And Jesus said to them, "Yes; have you never read, "Out of the babes and sucklings thou hast brought perfect praise?" Psalm 8 reference!
The Big Point of All This, Is That God Has been Working For The Reconcilliation and Redemption Of His Creation since God asked Adam who told you that you are naked?
That His solution is lasting and successful. That his provision is the work that justifies. That his name Saves.
S.Davis
At the right time Christ died for us. Romans 5:6 while we were still week.
That Passover season when Jesus entered into the City of Jerusalem through the gate being carried by those two beasts of burden, which he directed beforehand those two disciples to fetch an ass, and the asses colt, we see this incarnate Godman who was born of a virgin, of the tribe of Judah, the root of Jesse, the son of David. Scripture fortold of this event. It happened at the right time.
There could be no other time before, or after this date in history. It couldn't have been done as Harld Camping claims before the foundation of the world, because man had not even been made yet, and when man was created he was perfect. Therefore not in need of salvation. But this need would become manifest at the time of Adam and Eve's disobedience which was after all things were made.
And there is, of course, that nasty matter that Jesus had to do, and that is to defeat and destroy the works of the Devil. Any body else claiming to be god incarnate could not possibly have the credentials that Jesus has. And finally, when Jesus was tempted of Satan, were those tests just "illustrations" of what Christ had to overcome in heaven before the foundation of this world as Harold Camping claimes?
No! those were real and credible. Because Christ was like us on all acounts minus sin. But he needed water and food for strength and could tire and feel every manner of pain and suffering which all humans can experience. Those Tests were not empty threats or fraudulent phony props to tell a story. Christ indeed had to overcome each and every one of them for real. In other words, there was the possibility that he could have failed them because they were credible in every way. But Thank God our Champion and Hero Overcame! and we can overcome in and through him who is our strength and salvation! Yeah!
Yes David, we all see through a glass darkly, and we all I am sure make mistakes and miscalculations. Even though Harold Camping (Reformed theology background) is wrong on several major points of interpreting eschatology. He has been spot on in most areas of God's Word. Please forgive me, in advance, if you think I have been presumptuous in my writing. Pls advise or critique where necessary because that is how we all learn.
The synopsis of the above is:
Christ the Vine. is one and the same Who is the written Word of God (Foal/Ass) and Word of God Became Flesh (Colt of an Ass). Jesus Who is the Blood Sacrifice for all sin. (wine and blood of grapes) This picture Is Jehovah's Salvation. It is his answer to overcoming sin. Yes God is involved in sin. The correcting or the blotting out of sin. The Rightous Covering pleasing to Him.
S.Davis
Jhn 5:39 You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me; yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.
(Binary) Manifestations making the Whole? Christ rode upon both beasts His word and His flesh
(The ass) God's Word using oral tradition and Written down in the Pentateuch which testifies of Messiah God...It, (The Written Word)is a part but not the whole of Jehovah's Salvation. This word condemns mankind pricking our pride to trust in the promises and testimony of The Word and a future day to come of Redemption.
The (colt the foal of an ass) is the Person, flesh, the life, light, knowledge, testamony, and glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ the living God dwelling with us. Emanuel. Lamb of God. The Scapegoat sin bearer. The Prince of Peace who lives, who died, who arose from death, who reigns in heaven at the right hand of God the Father until his return.
Jesus when he came to his own, was enthroned upon these two beasts riding into his city. "Rejoice Oh daughter of Zion! Shout oh daugter of Jerusalem! Behold thy king cometh unto thee He is Just and having Salvation. Humble lowly riding upon and ass and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
He became a stumbling block for many and only a remnant received him on that day. Oh Israel Hope in the Lord. For in the Lord there is steadfast love and mercy born of his grace. And in him there is plenteous redemption. And He will redeem Israel from all his iniquity!
Luke 24: Then opend he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures.
We, who have the privilege of living presently,I do not have the empathy much less the understanding of what it was like to be a Jew living during the time of Jesus. The result is that many Christians, I believe, are overly critical of Jews who were alive in the days when Jesus came to dwell among his own.
Remember, the Jewish Nation is that peculiar people whom God chose to be the caretaker of his Written word. God referred to them as being "My people". At the time of Jesus, the Jews had several factions of whom were Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes whom had developed, over the time since Moses, different religious and political viewpoints and interpretations about everything in Jewish life. Sound familiar?
We, who are alive today, have been on the post side of The New Testament Revelation for over 2K years. The many groups, who call themselves Christian, can be and are just as blind as the Jewish nation was then. Christians, like the Jews, are referred by God as "My people who are called by my name" and that they have been commissioned by God to be the caretaker of His Word and to go into the whole world to live and multiply the Gospel of Jesus Christ until he comes again.
Luke 24 (the chapter) reveals the fundamental flaw both communities have on both sides of The Cross.
The Problem: Luke 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken. (Jesus being the author and source of all that the prophets spoke).
The Solution: Luke 24:52 & 53 and THEY WORSHIPPED HIM WITH GREAT JOY: AND WERE CONTINUALLY IN THE TEMPLE, PRAISING AND BLESSIN GOD. Amen.
This is the where anybody who seeks God will be found of God. The temple of ones soul. Continually being filled with the presence of God's Word. How? By being schooled in what God says (hearing). When one learns what God says, by being under the hearing of The Holy Spirit, who endows the soul with power from on high, one can not begin to contain the worship and joy of praising and blessing God!
Come bless the Lord all ye servants of the Lord who stand by night in the house of the Lord. Come lift up your hands to his holy place and bless the Lord. Bless the Lord!
God Speed!
S.Davis
I need to add to the one sentence above... concerning how the Holy Spirit endows the soul with power from on high: "To open our understanding that we might understand the scriptures."
S.Davis
The Damnable Heresy of Arminianism
http://www.outsidethecamp.org/heresyarmin.htm
1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
The Spirit bears witness of God's Love and Truth. Who ever lives to be able to Witness and to Testify the record that God gave of his Son. Who's testamony is Faithful and Holy
The Water/Word of God = the written/spoken word The Law, Testamony, Precepts, Commandments, His Record...Convicting mankind of our deep need to be justified.
The Blood = Christ Jesus (Holy living flesh) The person of the Son of God. Who's Faithfulness, Who's Blood, Who's Love through his power of imputation cleanses and justifies all, who believe through him, (our gift of faith) The redemptive Work of God's Son who (overcame the enemy and the avenger) because Jesus is the propitiation and expiation defending (perfectly justifying) as a mighty bulwark against all works of sin, the world, and Satan.
1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an UNDERSTANDING, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, who is his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. 5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.
Praise Our Living God! He, through his son, was able to bear even to carry, all our sorrows, burdens, sins, transgressions, and iniquity far away from the afflicted. He has ears to hear our petitions and the power to give good gifts. He has eyes to see and reward with truth and justice and salvation his perfect judgment. Amen.
S. Davis
UNDERSTANDING ... Lord God, please open to us the priveledge of participating in your thoughts, discernment, even having your perfect understanding flood to fill our hearts, minds, and souls as we participate in reading and studying and praying and discussing your Everlasting Word. Thank you God, for Pastor David's leadership to have this church to systematically read through your Bible, God. Thank you God, for Angie's memory work for us to learn Psalm 1. Help us all, Lord, to grow in and through your abundant Grace to desire to know and receive The Spirit filled UNDERSTANDING of your perfect Love that you have for your creation. Amen.
S.Davis
What does God say about intelligence?
When is the necessary evil a necessity? Why do we continue to plagiarize the word of god for the thoughts of righteousness for our own good? God's will?
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